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Group to Group Combat
#1
We had a question to support@alamaze.co about a combat result, and like the link below, I wanted to post something for everyone. Please check out the link for specific information regarding a battle that was addressed
separately.

http://kingdomsofarcania.net/forum/showt...6#pid13926

In this case a LARGE Giant army group (8 GI / 9 OG) is faced off against a small 2 brigade AN group. The Giant attacked with a tactic 3, and although the AN group's wizards cast spells, there was no attack/defend order issued by the AN for that combat.

This results in the AN group being "surprised" by the combat. In game terms this means that the group uses the default AN kingdom retreat factor, and takes a negative penalty modifier for the entire combat.

There are several phases to combat, described in the group to group battle results in the order they occur, with the impact provided by the forces. At the highest level these phases are Archery, Magic, Cavalry, Infantry, Combined. Although there are these 5 broad types, there are about a dozen actual phases where these broader components are split, retaliated against, and repeated.

Prior to battle the combat values and modifiers are calculated, including the retreat percentages that will be tested against as the different battle phases are encountered. In the event that a group has sustained damage over its retreat threshold, the group executes its retreat which has differing levels of success (more of fewer additional casualties) based on kingdom type, troop composition, leadership, opposition leadership, opposition troop composition, etc.

In each phase the group deals out its calculated damage for that phase, modified by the losses the group has sustained to that point in the combat.

In this specific case, the battle description runs through the archery, and magic phases, culminating with the AN casting a wall of flame and the description of the damage done to the Giants who attacked at a level 3 and went through the wall.

Immediately after this description in the battle report, the report of the AN retreat is provided. The battle description tells the tale:
The Giant group did enough damage to trip the default retreat threshold of the Ancient One's group at the end of the magic phase that delivered the wall of flame damage to the Giant group. At that point the regular battle routine exits to the retreat function and the Ancient makes off with a few troops and its figures intact.

Had the Giant done a little less damage in the early phases, or the Ancient not suffered the penalty from being surprised, the retreat threshold might not have been met and the combat progressed into a phase that the Giant would have wiped out the entire Ancient group. If the Giant had done a bit MORE damage in the magic phase, groups losses of the AN brigades might have reached 100% and the group eliminated.

So, in reviewing the example provided to Support@Alamaze.co, the routine executed as programmed and it happened that retreat came early enough to allow the AN to escape the truly devastating infantry component of the GI/OG army group.

Please use this thread for clarifying questions, or other battle routine oddities that need clarification.
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#2
It makes sense to me. The AN stuck around long enough to get some digs in, but had no intention of fighting to the last man. "Fire your arrows, loose your fireball, and get the Hells out of here!"
 Lord Diamond

Please do not take any of my comments as a personal insult or as a criticism of the game 'Alamaze', which I very much enjoy. Rather, I hope that my personal insight and unique perspective may, in some way, help make 'Alamaze' more fun, a more successful financial venture, or simply more sustainable as a long-term project. Anyone who reads this post should feel completely free to ignore, disregard, scorn, implement, improve, dispute, or otherwise comment upon its content.





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#3
I think that works if the AN had entered a defend/attack order at tactic 1, however in this case I think the AN just got lucky with where the retreat factor landed opposed to the damage done in the early phases by the Giant.
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#4
(01-27-2014, 03:09 AM)Cipher Wrote: I think that works if the AN had entered a defend/attack order at tactic 1, however in this case I think the AN just got lucky with where the retreat factor landed opposed to the damage done in the early phases by the Giant.
H
How about "Oh, Gods! They are attacking!! Shoot yours arrows and cast your spells if you got em! Then run like Hell!"?
 Lord Diamond

Please do not take any of my comments as a personal insult or as a criticism of the game 'Alamaze', which I very much enjoy. Rather, I hope that my personal insight and unique perspective may, in some way, help make 'Alamaze' more fun, a more successful financial venture, or simply more sustainable as a long-term project. Anyone who reads this post should feel completely free to ignore, disregard, scorn, implement, improve, dispute, or otherwise comment upon its content.





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#5
My view is that the trained/organized militaries of Alamaze are not going to slumber idly through the day without orders from their king.

Any organized military will post sentries, gain tactical intelligence of their surroundings and be in a general state of readiness.

Clearly, if a king orders a group to attack (order 110) or dig in/make best use of the terrain and their available military formations (order 120) against a specific foe, they will be very well prepared for battle.

Of course, just because the king does NOT give a specific order doesn't mean the troops are neatly lined up single file waiting for any group in the area to walk over and easily execute the entire lot.

In game terms this general state of readiness provides for the 'default' retreat factor, and the ability to respond to a another group's attacks, although at a lesser level than if they had planned the assault or defensively prepared.

In this case the AN wizards have been directed to cast spells against the Giant, including a wall of flame, but the military commanders not given an order to attack the group or maximize their defenses against the opposing group. The Giants start their advance, tossing in a few boulders (alerting the Ancient's military of their attack), the AN group responds as they've been trained, and after counting their losses and seeing the Giant come through the wall of flame, they start their retreat. The Giant's group doesn't do enough damage in archery/magic/cavalry phases to wipe out the AN group, which suffers a few more losses in retreat and manages to successfully withdraw from the field.
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#6
Curious, thus the proper strategy for the AN in this case would be to save an order and simply be surprised.
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#7
(01-27-2014, 01:14 PM)davekuyk Wrote: Curious, thus the proper strategy for the AN in this case would be to save an order and simply be surprised.

Apparently, that might be a valid strategy. I had never considered it. All of the battles where. I was surprised turned out badly.
 Lord Diamond

Please do not take any of my comments as a personal insult or as a criticism of the game 'Alamaze', which I very much enjoy. Rather, I hope that my personal insight and unique perspective may, in some way, help make 'Alamaze' more fun, a more successful financial venture, or simply more sustainable as a long-term project. Anyone who reads this post should feel completely free to ignore, disregard, scorn, implement, improve, dispute, or otherwise comment upon its content.





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#8
(01-27-2014, 04:53 PM)Lord Diamond Wrote:
(01-27-2014, 01:14 PM)davekuyk Wrote: Curious, thus the proper strategy for the AN in this case would be to save an order and simply be surprised.

Apparently, that might be a valid strategy. I had never considered it. All of the battles where. I was surprised turned out badly.

Provocative quesiton...should that be a valid strategy?
When does not knowing about invisible group, for example, actually help you get away without getting otherwise obliterated.
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#9
(01-27-2014, 04:53 PM)Lord Diamond Wrote:
(01-27-2014, 01:14 PM)davekuyk Wrote: Curious, thus the proper strategy for the AN in this case would be to save an order and simply be surprised.

Apparently, that might be a valid strategy. I had never considered it. All of the battles where. I was surprised turned out badly.

Interesting thread for me since I was the AN player.

I imagine support caught grief over AN losses being low relative to the GI losses. Meanwhile, I am thinking it is unfair that you can't use multiple wall of flames to deter an attacker any more. The GI should be glad of that or he would have faced 2 WoF's.



Additonally the changes to how invisible groups work also came into play as the AN group was invisble and that used to be a larger advantage. The GI was able to not only attack the correct AN group ID but also cast protect heroes and wizards vs. the right ID saving his wizard.
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#10
Sounds like a really smart GI player.. Wink

Dave, cheers to you!
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