Maelstrom 2.0 Military Changes

[Pine Needle]

This will make the RD much less successful. 5 regions is tough- I think lion's share will be the norm. Not a criticism, but a prediction.

[PTRILEY]

This will make the RD much less successful. 5 regions is tough- I think lion's share will be the norm. Not a criticism, but a prediction.

I agree, I think it will be tougher for the military kingdoms as a whole.   No huge magic spells to help on those big fortresses.

[Acererak]

Important. 

No, PC battles will not look like old PC battles, especially when the PC has a fortification built.

The loss divider shows what attack value you have in a phase "gets through". 

If your group was to do 1000 damage in LRM (long range missile phase), the actual damage inflicted on the PC is 1000 / (loss divider).  So in the previous model, a PC with no fortification has a loss divider of 1.3, so your group would do 1000/1.3 = 769 damage to the PC in that phase.

In the new model, the non-fortified PC goes to 1.5 loss divider, and you may have noticed your missile values went down by 10%.  So now you are doing 900 points / 1.5 = 600 damage to PC.

The bigger impact is attacking fortified (castles and fortress/citadel).  Look at those loss dividers from Mike's Corner:
Popcenter Changes:
   a. Base PC loss divider increases from 1.3 to 1.5
   b. Fortification loss divider increased from a general +0.4 bonus to:
       i. Mott & Bailey bonus +1.8
       ii. Castle or Fortress bonus +2.4
       iii. Great Castle or Citadel bonus +2.7
       iv. Legendary Castle bonus +3.3

So the now 900 points LRM against a PC with Castle inflicts 900 / 2.4 = 375 points get through.  So you see, between the increase in PC loss divider and the 10% reduction in missile fire across the board, your group will inflict about 50% in missile phases vs castles as it did previously. 

Consider also Wind Storm will still be a popular choice, but only 50% as effective as before.  You might consider some of the traditional battle spells like Tornado or Earthquake as replacements depending on circumstance.  As the quick rule of thumb for now, I would suggest start experimenting with about 3 to 1 value vs. PC to attack, and perhaps 4 to 1 if Great Castle or Citadel, 5 to 1 for Legendary Castle, all of course modified for your effects of magic.  Also, I do not believe the stated value vs. PC or the group value by phase included then or does now, leadership (Mike to confirm).  So two Warlords in that case would increase both your attack values and loss divider for your group by 50%.

Note also that brigade loss dividers also increased at least 10%, and many increased 20% or 25%.  Between that and the reduction in missile value, we expect more group to group battles to last longer (more get to Charge and Melee phases), and more PC battles to get into Storm phases.

I really think a lot of the powering up and powering down of fortifications etc could be better managed if one could station leaders and wizards at popcenters, with the popcenters thus enjoying the bonsuses the groups get from leaders and spells. This is the main issue that causes all of this right sizing- it's completely out of whack because of that. Who wouldn't want to station their warlord and a high level wizard at their capital and base of their economy?

[PTRILEY]

Question has fear been capped yet?

[Pine Needle]

A little of both. Some changes are only relevant for the start of the game (turn 0 generation) and others will be active for all games even those currently running now. I'm attaching a pic with checkmarks next to the items that only apply for turn 0. All the others will be active when I upload the server on the 25th which will affect currently running games.

I have a couple of small bugs related to the recent changes (group defense rating, regional reaction), but your PM is disabled. How can I send them to you? I would suggest meeting in Las Vegas but my wife would kill me.
Thanks.

[PTRILEY]

This will make the RD much less successful. 5 regions is tough- I think lion's share will be the norm. Not a criticism, but a prediction.

I think your right.  Just a few turns in and I can see these changes to pop defense will be the death of military kingdoms with no magic support.  I hope it doesn’t revert back to the third cycle and wizard domination.  Even with the nerf of bounty (kinda irrelevant if you don’t change when it’s available as a spell) if it was cast 20 times a game before, now just cast it 30 times for same results?  Windstorm I think it’s nerf hurts military kingdoms worse than wizard kingdoms. No?   Just thinking out loud.

[Lord Thanatos]

As the RD in my first Maelstrom game it is quite annoying that I now must conquer 5 regions instead of 4 in order to achieve victory. I continue to make little mistakes almost every turn so I am certain I have no chance at victory anyhow. Still, quite annoying.

Adding fortifications already severely increased the damage to attacking groups, especially those without strong magic in the kingdom. While further increasing the difficulty for successful population center attacks is probably not too big a deal, I am curious why this was necessary. Just trying to understand the philosophy. . .

Anything that slows down the military kingdoms (including increasing regions for victory) tilts the game toward the wizard kingdoms. My, admittedly a long time ago, experience with Warlord contests was that Dome of Invulnerability stops military kingdoms in their tracks. My suggestion is that military kingdoms be provided a totem (or inherent ability for the first kingdom group) that ignores Domes of Invulnerability. Worth consideration?

I am certain the RD (SA, NO, RA, DW, etc . . .) players would happily take greater losses from every attack if they could have one group able to ignore Domes of Invulnerability. If not possible, I certainly prefer wizard kingdoms anyhow.

[Senior Tactician]

In the end, all kingdoms are military kingdoms.  You don't win this game without groups.  Its just a matter of where those brigades come from... be they inherent to the kingdom, summoned, recruited from a PC or recruited from the wild.

Kingdoms with inherently strong or numerous troops have an advantage early in the game (RD, SA, RA, CI, AM for instance) those with weaker kingdom brigades but a good companion list can mobilize a bit later in the game (those kingdoms with hill giants, trolls, mammoths, orcs, and others), finally, kingdoms capable of summoning undead (particularly specters and ghouls, who have fear) gain an advantage later in the game.  This late game advantage is compounded by the teleport army group spell.  Ensuring that games lasting a long time, towards the end of the 40 turns, will most likely be won by wizard kingdoms.

Alamaze has always been like this, with different kingdoms having different strengths at different stages of the game.

What I think will happen is the game will become more of a game of attrition, people dropping out.  I've won this game on turn 14 once, you walk in, take a region in 2 turns and move on to the next before anyone can react.  Now, with the 5 region requirement and the stronger PCs, you can't just walk into your neighbors region and take his PCs, then move on to the next, he will come back unless you force him to make a moral check and drop the game, or force him out by defeating his kingdom.

I am very excited about the new rules.  I think it will make the game a lot more competitive.

Also, some of us play kingdoms specifically because they are a great challenge.  I've never played the Red Dragon, it just seemed too easy.  I also never used bounty (more than once or twice).  Now, I am more eager to try the RD as it is unlikely to be as simple as it used to be.

[PTRILEY]

Good write up. I think the heavy military can win, but it will take a little more work and strategy, like you said.

[unclemike]

A little of both. Some changes are only relevant for the start of the game (turn 0 generation) and others will be active for all games even those currently running now. I'm attaching a pic with checkmarks next to the items that only apply for turn 0. All the others will be active when I upload the server on the 25th which will affect currently running games.

I have a couple of small bugs related to the recent changes (group defense rating, regional reaction), but your PM is disabled. How can I send them to you? I would suggest meeting in Las Vegas but my wife would kill me.
Thanks.

If you have any concerns over the Winter 2020 Update to the game, either send support an email or post on the forum and we'll investigate the matter.

Group defense values are accurate though. I extensively tested and verified that portion of the update since that and greater popcenter toughness was one of the main reasons for the update. So I would like to know what you think is the issue.

About regional reactions, the code wasn't changed for that except for the fact that Tight Control now requires 100% control of the region. Your kingdom may have experienced lowered reactions or something from that change.