Maelstrom 2.0 Military Changes

[Senior Tactician]

Have a suggestion for summoned troops.  Change the spell number to somewhere between Attack order and Movement orders.

Currently, if you want to recruit from a PC, you can Attack (150), recruit (560) then Move (720) to the next enemy PC, wherever it may be, with your new recruits.

For companions, you can Plunder (160), recruit (565) then Move (720) to your next target.

With summons, however, there is no movement order, including teleport, that comes after the summon. So, you cannot:
Plunder or attack (150, 160), Summon (864), then move (720) or even teleport (852) to the next PC because you have to be in the wild, like companions.  So you are stuck moving off the beaten path for a turn, summoning up, then getting back to the good work of destroying your opponents.

Perhaps this is intended, but I don't think summoned brigades are such a powerful ability that they need this kind of tempering.  Undead summons are relatively weak troops.  While minotaur and rock golems are quite tough, they have the restriction of having to be summoned in specific terrain.

It used to be that you could summon from a location that contained a PC, if I remember correctly, so maybe this was simply overlooked?

[Draugr]

It was purposely changed to make it so you cannot summon at PCs.

Used to be you could teleport a division then end up with an army when you teleport to another PC.

Personally I gave no issue with summoning being different timing than recruiting because it gives more options and add nuance to the game.

[Senior Tactician]

It was purposely changed to make it so you cannot summon at PCs.

Used to be you could teleport a division then end up with an army when you teleport to another PC.  

Personally I gave no issue with summoning being different timing than recruiting because it gives more options and add nuance to the game.

If you just changed the summon order number though, you could still keep the rule of no summoning at a PC.  Then, just like companions, you would have to plunder the PC to be able to summon, and if the summon order came before the teleport order, you could not "teleport more" than you had to start with.  And, if you wanted to summon minotaur or golem, you'd have to be in rocks or forests, I think its completely reasonable.

There is no good reason to be in the wild except to summon (or to hide maybe).  If you need to recruit companions during a mission, you just move to the enemy PC on the terrain that you need, plunder, summon, and off to the races.

[Draugr]

It was purposely changed to make it so you cannot summon at PCs.

Used to be you could teleport a division then end up with an army when you teleport to another PC.  

Personally I gave no issue with summoning being different timing than recruiting because it gives more options and add nuance to the game.

If you just changed the summon order number though, you could still keep the rule of no summoning at a PC.  Then, just like companions, you would have to plunder the PC to be able to summon, and if the summon order came before the teleport order, you could not "teleport more" than you had to start with.  And, if you wanted to summon minotaur or golem, you'd have to be in rocks or forests, I think its completely reasonable.

There is no good reason to be in the wild except to summon (or to hide maybe).  If you need to recruit companions during a mission, you just move to the enemy PC on the terrain that you need, plunder, summon, and off to the races.

Reason to be in wild is summon or recruit champions.  If at PC you recruit something else.   The turn you move to the wild you summon the turn you move out you recruit.   Really there is no good reason to change the way it currently is to fit a play style.   Instead adapt to how it is and make it work to your advantage.
An example of this summon phantom.   You move a patrol on an elite ship then summon phantom to take a PC or meteor strike.  Port away or wait a turn to move again.   Or should we also move summon phantom to the turn before so every thing recruits and summons at the same time taking away strategy and nuance of the game.

[Senior Tactician]

It was purposely changed to make it so you cannot summon at PCs.

Used to be you could teleport a division then end up with an army when you teleport to another PC.  

Personally I gave no issue with summoning being different timing than recruiting because it gives more options and add nuance to the game.

If you just changed the summon order number though, you could still keep the rule of no summoning at a PC.  Then, just like companions, you would have to plunder the PC to be able to summon, and if the summon order came before the teleport order, you could not "teleport more" than you had to start with.  And, if you wanted to summon minotaur or golem, you'd have to be in rocks or forests, I think its completely reasonable.

There is no good reason to be in the wild except to summon (or to hide maybe).  If you need to recruit companions during a mission, you just move to the enemy PC on the terrain that you need, plunder, summon, and off to the races.

Reason to be in wild is summon or recruit champions.  If at PC you recruit something else.   The turn you move to the wild you summon the turn you move out you recruit.   Really there is no good reason to change the way it currently is to fit a play style.   Instead adapt to how it is and make it work to your advantage.
An example of this summon phantom.   You move a patrol on an elite ship then summon phantom to take a PC or meteor strike.  Port away or wait a turn to move again.   Or should we also move summon phantom to the turn before so every thing recruits and summons at the same time taking away strategy and nuance of the game.

I agree mostly but I'm trying to see any kind of strategy benefit to summon being order 860+ and I just don't see it, I only see the downside.  What would be a good example of a strategy where summon monster spell would have to be order 860+?  I suppose you could be at a PC, recruit 560, then move off the PC and summon, getting more troops in one turn, I guess.  But you'd end up in the wild anyway.  I suppose the only way it would be of benefit is if you were two turns away from your target, turn 1 you could 560, then move, then summon.  Then turn 2 you could 565 and move to your target, getting in three recruiting efforts in 2 turns.

But still that's not really a benefit, its just a work-around.  If summon was 570 say, you could do the exact same thing.

Actually you did already mention the one good strategy benefit of summon being 860+.  You can teleport a division, for instance, across the map to the wild, then summon, then next turn move on a PC with something more than a division.  But, again, if summon was 570… you could do the same thing again.

Summon at 860 is nothing more than a restriction.  And, if it is necessary balance, I get that, but I don't see any benefit.

[Senior Tactician]

OK, I stand corrected.  Here is a logical strategic advantage for summon to be after movement:

Lets say you have a patrol with 2x Power 5's at your capitol and you have to get a small group together fast and move it far away. (and at your capitol, in this example, you don't want to 560 because you want to keep the census high here)

Turn 1, move, summon x2
Turn 2, companions x3, teleport, invisible


You just got an invisible teleporting division together in two turns.  This would not be possible if summon was 570, because you need the wizards on turn two to cast teleport and invisible.

I have too much time....

[Pine Needle]

So if I am a dispersed kingdom I ignore the notification on my turn (and the order checker) that I get +2 points toward ESO?

Does that mean 1) I need to set an ESO with 5 points, to get the full reward? or 2) I can only set an ESO with 3 points, and can only get 3 points of rewards?

I think the answer is 2), but I'm probably doing it wrong.

Thanks.

[Senior Tactician]

So if I am a dispersed kingdom I ignore the notification on my turn (and the order checker) that I get +2 points toward ESO?

Does that mean 1) I need to set an ESO with 5 points, to get the full reward? or 2) I can only set an ESO with 3 points, and can only get 3 points of rewards?

I think the answer is 2), but I'm probably doing it wrong.

Thanks.

Set your ESO at five points and you only need to get three points to claim it, if I understand correctly.  The ESO bonus still applies even though the kingdoms are no longer dispersed.

[Wookie Panz]

So if I am a dispersed kingdom I ignore the notification on my turn (and the order checker) that I get +2 points toward ESO?

Does that mean 1) I need to set an ESO with 5 points, to get the full reward? or 2) I can only set an ESO with 3 points, and can only get 3 points of rewards?

I think the answer is 2), but I'm probably doing it wrong.

Thanks.

Set your ESO at five points and you only need to get three points to claim it, if I understand correctly.  The ESO bonus still applies even though the kingdoms are no longer dispersed.

Correct - you have to set e.s.o. for 5 points to get the main e.s.o. even though you get 2 points free with dispersed.  I think that will be fixed with the next Maelsrtom revision.  No more free points as there are no longer any dispersed kingdoms.

[Pine Needle]

So if I am a dispersed kingdom I ignore the notification on my turn (and the order checker) that I get +2 points toward ESO?

Does that mean 1) I need to set an ESO with 5 points, to get the full reward? or 2) I can only set an ESO with 3 points, and can only get 3 points of rewards?

I think the answer is 2), but I'm probably doing it wrong.

Thanks.

Set your ESO at five points and you only need to get three points to claim it, if I understand correctly.  The ESO bonus still applies even though the kingdoms are no longer dispersed.

Correct - you have to set e.s.o. for 5 points to get the main e.s.o. even though you get 2 points free with dispersed.  I think that will be fixed with the next Maelsrtom revision.  No more free points as there are no longer any dispersed kingdoms.

Thanks. Live and learn.