Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
January 2017 Choosing Changes
#1
This is not official.  Just providing an opportunity for discussion.  Keep the entirety of it in mind, rather than pick at any one point.

The forum software doesn't work well with Word, so the formatting is a little off, but you'll get the gist. 


Proposed Changes to The Choosing for January, 2017
To be Effective January 31, 2017

Setup Changes:
o   Amazons gain a Veteran Amazon brigade to 1AM;
o   Lizardmen gain a P2 and a Saurus Veteran brigade to 1LI;
o   Rangers gain Charisma trait, and a Veteran Zamoran brigade in 1RA;
o   Wizard capitals gain an additional 3k defense;
o   Dwarven defense build bonus consumes no food and increases 4k defense for 10k gold invested;
o   Cimmerians start with 1 additional brigade in 1 CI as Veteran.
o   Black Dragons start with +5k to capital defense and gold, and 2 additional Fore Knowledge artifacts (random).
o   Sacred Order starts with a veteran Northmen brigade with its 1SA.
o   Lizardmen also gain a P1 wizard in LI2.
o   Atlantians gain an Atlantian veteran brigade in 1AT.
o   Both starting Halfling villages are hidden.

Trait Changes:
·        Devout Kingdoms can have their fanatics train two levels higher than their agents
·        Non-Magical kingdoms retain the same cost per power level of research and spell lists, but the maximum power assured moves from 2 to 3.  Currently this only affects the Dwarves.
·       
·        The Halflings move from Magically Disadvantaged to Sub-standard.  This reflects that some Halfling wizards have joined from a more magical race, not the magic of Halflings themselves.  Halflings retain their earlier than trait spells (so those obtained a power level earlier than sub-standard).
·        Military Tradition kingdoms gain a 5th group.

Rule Changes:
·        A High Priestess in good health (not weary or exhausted) of a Devout kingdom who is located in a PC with a temple can summon a Guardian Angel that deters an attack on an owned PC with a temple in the same region like a Wall of Flame was around the PC.  Not effective against flying attackers, only 50% effective against a bombardment assault.  This is a new order for a HP numbered right after Wall of Flame. 
·        Magic Research cost goes up after P3.  So normal Research Costs through P3, but then at P4 and above, cost is (base + powerx$1k) x Power.  So a Magic Supremacy kingdom going to P5, would pay (7 +5) x 5 = 60k gold, instead of the current $35k.
·        Wizards may only summon a brigade in the wild (not at PC’s).  Does not apply to Instant Summon Phantoms or to accumulating Zombies.
·        Only one summoned brigade can be summoned per turn, per group, excluding Phantoms or Zombies which retain their spell descriptions. 
·        Summoned troops will have upkeep representing ng magical materials consumed to sustain the summoning).
Upkeep for Summoned brigades:
·        Type:                                   Gold                      Food
·        Minotaurs                          2000                     2000
·        Wights                                1000                       500
·        Ghouls                                   700                       500
·        Zombies                                300                       300
·        Rock Golems                     2000                       500
·        Skeletons                              300                        -
·        Specters                              1000                       500
 
 
Combat Changes:
·        Barrage only against PC’s (not groups) and at 150% long range (instead of 200%) and remain 150% short range missile phases.
·        Successful Flank tactic increases the group’s charge values by 175% instead of 200%.
 
Spell Effect Changes:
·        Combat Density spell effect against divisions+ reduced:
o   vs. Divisions becomes 125%
o   vs. Armies becomes 150%
o   vs. Army Groups becomes 200%
·        Many spells don’t stack.  One spell per group per target:
o   All battle spells
o   Dire Wolf
o   Summon Death
o   Fear
o   Valor
o   Shield
·        Does not apply to Dispel, Familiars, etc.  Is for spells that affect combat.  As well as the previously mentioned.
·        Increase the benefit of HP Heal and spell Heal by 50%.  Trait Healing remains as is.  Revise setup/spell list to reflect new values.

Spell List Changes:  Various revisions to the required power level for spells, such that some that are unattainable now become a possibility for the less magical kingdoms.  .
o   Heal is available to all kingdoms one power level earlier
o   Teleport Patrol has been added
o   Teleport Army Group has been reduced 1 level for Magic Supremacy and Mastery kingdoms
o   The reduction to the casting wizard’s group strength in effected phases by Wind Storm and Flash Flood are reduced by 50% (so a 50% reduction to caster group – not target – becomes a 25% reduction).
o   Dispel Dome of Invulnerability will drop in required power 1 level and 2 power levels for Devout kingdoms via special ability (AM, LI, NO, SA).  Add that to the “spells gained earlier” section to the dossiers of Devout Kingdoms.
 
Artifact Clarification/Changes:
·        Fine weapon artifact increases group attack damage by lesser of 10% or 2000 after missile phases, except for bows and spears which also effect missile phases but not combined phases;
·        Excellent weapon artifact increases group attack damage by lesser of 20% or 4000 in charge, melee and combined phases;
·        Superior weapon artifact increases group damage by lesser of 30% or 6000 in charge, melee and combined phases.
·        Fine weapon has a chance to kill one enemy leader or wizard, chosen at random and subject to traits, protection, etc., of 20 points (a 20% chance becomes 40%) which is an additional roll to normal leader / death chances. 
·        As per above, Excellent weapons have a 40 point, Superior weapons a 60 point increase in chance of killing a randomly selected character of the enemy.
·        Weapons also reduce the chance of their wielder (not all characters) being killed by the related % (not points).  So facing a 20% chance of death, a leader with a Fine weapon has a 16% chance, an Excellent wielder has a 12% chance, a Superior weapon reduces chance of its leader dying by 60%, so net 8% in this example.
·        Armor artifacts reduce death chance of the possessing leader (not all leaders) by 50% for Fine, 70% for Excellent, 90% for Superior.
Reply

#2
Wow that is a lot of changes. I think Ry-Vor adressed everything we discussed plus extras. Certainly will shake up the balance of power.   It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
Reply

#3
Seems very well thought out to return/adjust balance to the realm. No real complaints.
Reply

#4
Overall, I like the changes, especially all of them related to the HP/temples.

However, I think the combination of the single spell limit in a group AND the geared up Dispel Dome AND increased cost/limits of summoned troops AND the added cost of higher level wizards will be a bit "too" taxing on the wizards; I think they will have been weakened too far (even with the greater cap defense). I'd rather keep the single spell limit and better Dispel Domes but not add the costs for increasing levels. Keep the food/gold costs of summoned troops and only in wild but not one summoned brigade per turn per group. IMO, if you add the listed "punishments" to the wizard kingdoms and the upgrade to the non-wizards kingdoms and I think the wizard kingdoms will be very negatively unbalanced.
Reply

#5
It is actually not the pure wizard kingdoms hurt the most it is the tweeners and mastery level. The magic costs hit them much harder and they have weaker spell lists so have a need to go above max level more than others. The DA trying to get to a P8 so he can have a P7 lich. (9+8) x 8 = 136k for a 50% chance. Advancing beyond your power level is likely only a luxury for a kingdom already in the lead.

SA wants a P5 maybe he would actually like to cast wall of flame or chaos (13+5) x 5 = 90k again 50% chance Try to pay that and maintain your military.

Overall very interesting patch. Kind of a careful what you ask for. You just might get it.

I am curious does no battle spells stack mean earthquake will not stack with fire strike or just two earthquakes will not stack?
Reply

#6
So the DE princes no longer can summon 4 skeletons into one group? Combined with the hit to their wizards and their increase cost for their military... They took a hurting they didn't need.

Your changes to the BL are not going to help. And I am going to laugh heartily when their foreknowledge puts an artifact in the water. People will still look at the SA and choose it. The Gold or Rich trait both help. But the lose out on so much and partially its due to their central location.
Reply

#7
Thanks for the feedback so far.  I posted this before Mike could thoroughly review just to see if there was anything regarded by consensus as outrageous. 

My objective is to have all zones be difficult choices in The Choosing, and that no kingdom was regarded as un-winable. 

Maybe one of the limitations proposed on the wizards will be deleted.  The combat spell of non-stacking is yes, just one Earthquake (for example), but could still have a Tornado and Firestrike on the same target.

There were a number of other changes I would like to make, but didn't want to disrupt existing games too much so will defer to the next update in Maelstrom, but felt these I listed had to be done soon (end of month) because Maelstrom is likely at least 3 months away.

It did take quite some time to determine what should be in now vs. what could wait.  Again, I need to let Mike review: for example, I don't know if having hidden villages for the Halfling is a problem in the code.

Again, I review Valhalla standings and the popularity of kingdoms, and the wizards were at the top of both categories, and the Gray Mouser has taken on a wizard kingdom for the first time and finds it impressive.  So in the balancing effort, they got most of the attention, along with some pumps for the military kingdoms.  Yes, not much done one way or the other for the balanced kingdoms.
Reply

#8
(01-02-2017, 07:11 PM)Atuan Wrote: So the DE princes no longer can summon 4 skeletons into one group? Combined with the hit to their wizards and their increase cost for their military... They took a hurting they didn't need.

Your changes to the BL are not going to help.  And I am going to laugh heartily when their foreknowledge puts an artifact in the water.  People will still look at the SA and choose it.  The Gold or Rich trait both help.  But the lose out on so much and partially its due to their central location.

The spell casting summoning limitation is for wizards.  Everyone has their pet kingdom and their pet trick.  The Demon Princes are tied for 2nd with 7 wins in 3rd Cycle, and none of the changes directly effected them. 

The Black Dragon, I believe Atuan you are trying them now, need to be played to their strengths, including making the central position an advantage with their mobility, rather than something of a detriment as the Sacred Order find it.

I would like to hear if after these changes are enacted at the end of the month, if there is still a kingdom several players would say they would never want to play.  Or conversely, that they would always want to play a given kingdom.
Reply

#9
There are so many changes in this update that it would be better for me if I phased them in waves throughout the month. If Ry Vor is ok with that, here's my proposed schedule:

Setup Changes
I can do these in a few days so expect those changes within a week. Though the Dwarven special defense order will require a website change so everyone will need to refresh their browsers once that part is done.

Trait Changes
These won't take long except for the extra group for Military Tradition trait kingdoms. As a player, that means that there will be a change to the website to fill out your orders that involve these new groups. The extra group will be added during turn 0 generation so current games will not have them (only newly created games). However, this poses a possible problem with the order entry website where the group dropdown lists for orders like 110 (where the user has to specify what opposing group to attack) will now contain that extra group even if that extra group is not in your current game. So you will need to be careful in specifying what group that you're attacking, defending, transferring, ...etc. or the action/order will bomb when the turn is executed. The website validator code won't notify you of the error because it won't be able to tell which games have the extra group and which games don't. Personally, I think this change should wait until Maelstrom where the software will be able to distinguish which games have the extra group and those that don't like Choosing games but Ry Vor really wants this so we're going to move forward with the change. Just prepare yourself that the order entry website and validator code won't trigger an error if the extra group is not in your game.

Rule Changes
Magic research cost change is easy to do but I'm not quite sure how to accomplish having a HP cast a defending angel to act as a wall of fire. That may be tricky to do so I can't say how long it will take. The other changes of restricting wizards to only summon one brigade per group and in the wild is simple but I'll have to make some changes to feed/pay undead troops which currently have a bypass in the code. If it weren't for the new HP order (another website change btw), I could do this section in a few of days.

Combat Changes
Less than a day.

Spell Effect Changes
The change to spell density and heal will be fast but not the one battle spell (or other) to not stack in a group. That change will be all over the code because it's not just combat but also dire wolf against agents and spell effects like death that occur before battle. I would say more than a week to make these changes and that's being aggressive.

Spell List Changes
Not much changed here actually. Kind of surprised Lich is still gained at 7th level for the wizard types which means no sacrifice of losing a wizard level like Wraithfom does for most. Unless I'm reading the spell chart incorrectly, it looks like only Dispel Dome, Heal, Teleport Patrol, and Teleport Army Group have changed. So it'll only take me a couple of days to create the new Teleport Patrol spell and this part will be done.

Text Changes (not shown)
Some descriptive text on the kingdom turn report will be changed/corrected. Never noticed that Grand Marshal mistake (should be Field Marshal) though enhancing the pc battle report and including a pre-battle magic phase is somewhat complex. Will separate the easy changes from the hard ones below.

Artifact Changes
This is by far the most complex change in the update. Currently, artifacts provide a morale-like bonus that gets applied at the beginning of the battle (like the valor spell). Now, I have to separate those bonuses out and apply a maximum benefit amount per combat phase and that will take quite a while to do. It'll end up changing the entire combat sequence from applying bonuses at the beginning (which also factors in defense and other considerations) to separate each per phase while still allowing for a total bonus for defense and such at the beginning of the battle. Seems like a complex change that may take several weeks to do since there are many factors and considerations that would have to be readjusted based upon the change.

To recap:
  2-3 days   Setup changes                est. Jan 6
     4 days   Trait changes                  est. Jan 13
  3-5 days   Rule + Combat changes   est. Jan 20
6-10 days   Spell Effect changes         est. Jan 27
    2 days    Spell List changes            est. Jan 30
    2 days    Text changes (easy)         est. Feb 3
10+ days    Text changes (hard)         est. Feb 17
14+ days    Artifact changes               est. Mar 3

Keep in mind that I'll also be doing support and monitoring Ready Enabled Duel games (which are awesome btw) that may postpone the schedule if I have to investigate something. Ry Vor, let me know if you want anything done in a particular order (e.g., work on Spell Effect changes first) and I'll change the schedule around.

P.S. Having hidden villages for the Halfling is a simple five minute change...

P.P.S. Ry Vor, since you asked below if any of these changes would always encourage you to play a particular kingdom in a given region, if you add those Ents as Halfling companions (not shown), I'll pretty much always choose HA over GN Smile
Reply

#10
It would be easier to just set the artifacts at the maximum point value and loose the "lesser of feature".   The artifact caps are pretty low and won't make super powerful divisions.  JMHO
Reply



Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2026 Melroy van den Berg.