Duel Game Beta Feedback

[Atuan]

Tsk tsk, UM, calling me arrogant is a personal attack. Will you receive a warning now?

I related a general truism: if you present a take it or leave it offering, there is a very real chance the answer will be to leave it, and thus you have wasted your time. That is a reality, that is a fact.

And pointing that fact out is not arrogance, it is a humble attempt to present the truth.

As always, point me to the example I should be following.

To summarize: I don't get why people try to tell me what I should do.  Did I ask for that? 

My bad dude, I assumed based on the quote you wanted us to give you input.

[Ry Vor]

Is it so, so hard to come up with anything positive?

We are not the cable company asking you to stay home for six hours waiting. We are offering essentially a near freeby, and just want a yes or no. I just don't get why we get the criticism we do and it is important to us as the money is not the motivator.

[HeadHoncho]

Lots of people have said many positive things about this format. But offering constructive criticism on how to make it even better is not an attack on you, and I reference my earlier comment about humility and security.

Here's an extreme example to prove the point. Let's say a player has an idea to improve the format that everyone agrees would be fantastic, and would result in 10x more games played. Furthermore, let's additionally say that all it would take to implement is a 30-second cut-and-paste job. (Hey, I did say extreme example.)

Wouldn't you want to make that change, even though there's still a lot to do on automated billing?

Obviously, practically none of us know how long any given change would really take to implement, and so it ultimately comes down to you and Mike making those resource allocation and priority decisions.

But in the absence of that knowledge, we could either all shut up and then you're deprived of valuable information that could really help the situation, potentially at very little time or effort... or we make the suggestion, and let you make the call.

No one is saying, "You must make this change NOW," and it is an outrageous mischaracterization to claim that anyone is.

Some of us are saying we would play more Duel games if certain changes are made, but that is not a demand... it is valuable customer preference information that many businesses pay cold, hard cash for.

[Ry Vor]

Lots of people have said many positive things about this format. But offering constructive criticism on how to make it even better is not an attack on you, and I reference my earlier comment about humility and security.

Here's an extreme example to prove the point. Let's say a player has an idea to improve the format that everyone agrees would be fantastic, and would result in 10x more games played. Furthermore, let's additionally say that all it would take to implement is a 30-second cut-and-paste job. (Hey, I did say extreme example.)

Wouldn't you want to make that change, even though there's still a lot to do on automated billing?

Obviously, practically none of us know how long any given change would really take to implement, and so it ultimately comes down to you and Mike making those resource allocation and priority decisions.

But in the absence of that knowledge, we could either all shut up and then you're deprived of valuable information that could really help the situation, potentially at very little time or effort... or we make the suggestion, and let you make the call.

No one is saying, "You must make this change NOW," and it is an outrageous mischaracterization for you to claim that anyone is.

Some of us are saying we would play more Duel games if certain changes are made, but they is not a demand... it is valuable customer preference information that many businesses pay cold, hard cash for.

I'm not sure what your were asking for above.  What I was saying was, why do people keep asking things of me?  I'm also not hearing the "lots of positive things" on the duel format.  That's what I am seeking.  "Outrageous"?  OK. sort of the theme.  If I say something it's "outrageous" to a couple posters. 

The automated stuff is more programming.  I just don't get why that is hard to see.

[HeadHoncho]

I'm also not hearing the "lots of positive things" on the duel format. That's what I am seeking.

Here's a sampling that I found after five minutes of browsing.

Code:

I think the Centauria map could be HUGE for Alamaze and should not be limited to new players. I could seriously see this becoming a new favorite option.

I can see this format becoming a strong staple for Alamaze. "Got an opponent? Great! No waiting for others! Your game starts on Wednesday!"

I LOVE the price-point, which is not something you ever expected to be typing here :) ... So far, I think this is a real winner. I am looking forward to many duels to come.

In tge meantime, there is loads of fun to be had ... I appreciate what you've already done.

Both regions as the same season is a great idea.

I think this could be a great format especially with items 1 and 2 addressed.

With some minor modifications, this could be gold.

This I think would be very popular.   It really would put player vs player in a way no other version of Alamaze allows.

I like the map, two player format, and turnaround time.

I would probably play it at the right price point.

I enjoy this format simply because it is so very different from a full fledged game.

3rd Cyle Duel is great. Some minor changes (compared to the effort already spent) could make it fantastic. It holds great potential to bring in new players and to teach thm the game while giving the rest of us a really cool option. I like that I can use it to get a few more games in eavh week, but at a low cost and low pressure to perform.

"Outrageous"? OK. sort of the theme. If I say something it's "outrageous" to a couple posters.

It is indeed outrageous and factually incorrect for you to claim anything along the lines of people saying, "You must make this change NOW." Unlike the many positive comments, you won't find any quotes of people demanding that changes be made NOW, because they don't exist.

N.B.: Helpful suggestions and constructive criticism are not demands.

The automated stuff is more programming. I just don't get why that is hard to see.

Obviously the automated stuff is more programming. But there is also obviously available programming time outside of that important project, because this Duel variant appeared. My point is proven.

As for the rest, I refer you back to my extreme 30 seconds for 10x games played example.

[Tomag Ironfist]

I love both the cosmetic and practical design of the map. It looks just as professional and polished as the Resurgent Map, and pretty well balanced on both sides (in reference to the terrain).

I LOVE the two player set up. Being able to go head to head is awesome!!! I feel like this is something that is void in the 12 player format, and therefor a great addition to Alamaze.

I am a big fan of the 3x a week turn around. I love the intensity and the turnover of 3x a week. I think 3x a week is a good balance between fast turnover and still having time to comprehend your turn and prepare your orders.


In the DA vs. DU game, I was able to win a big military engagement on turn four that really set the DU back. I made some rookie mistakes with emmys trying some tricks out that came back to bite me in the butt. This gave the druid a window of hope, but the decimation of his army in the 2nd big engagement we just had this past turn ensured his demise

In the CI vs AM game, we have been dancing our military groups around the map picking off eachother's PCs with kind of a geurilla tactic-esque movements. The AM has invested resources into her agents by the means of reconning my pcs and assassinating my agents/emmys. I dumped everything into my military, but I am starting to get a economic base good enough to start some good development. I honestly don't know who has the upper hand in this game!

[IMPERIAL_TARK]

I think everything about Alamaze rocks!  I picked this game back up after being away from it for 25-30 years (so clearly it made an impression back when I was in my early-mid 20s and still a PBM).  From the moment I started in August I have been addicted.  It took me about 2 months to hit the maximum service level and have been there ever since.  All other gaming interests have faded to the background (and I had a lot of varied gaming interests).  I have attempted to recruit numerous friends to the game and made many new friends through the community.  And this was all back when it was still just 2nd Cycle.  3rd Cycle is even better.  The Order Entry program, the Dual game/map, the new spells/traits/companion brigades and the re-balancing of kingdoms and diplomacy vs. magic vs. military vs. covert vs. economic aspects.  Every kingdom is exciting and nuanced. Suffice to say I could go on and on and on about how great the game is and much of this I've sent to you either in Forum comments or private emails.

Having said all that, I think it is in the nature of many of the gamers in the Alamaze community to offer up input/feedback/constructive criticism on just about EVERYTHING! And we're going to do this whether you ask for it or now. This is nothing unique to Alamaze.  Any game I play, I talk with friends about how the game (e.g., Settlers of Cataan, Axis and Allies, Magic, Fantasy Football), could be better, how we could try new rules, new variations, and how cool it would be if the game designers modified X, Y, and Z (and if and when I have the ear of those game designers I will certainly share my input). I think this is just human (gamer) nature.

So all the ideas, recommendations, tweaks, modifications, ideas, variations are generally NOT a criticism of the game but an honest attempt to simply say, "Hey, here's an idea you might want to consider to make the game better".  Many of the ideas will not be viable, realistic, desired, possible, feasible, etc.  And we all get that.  And some of them you just don't have the time, code, inclination, or desire to implement.  And we get that too.  However, we all believe that there are ideas out there that could certainly made the game better, or more appealing, etc. that could be done when you do have the time and the inclination (even if its 3 years later).

I don't think any of us are saying "you must do X or else" or "you must implement this today".  But it does stem from a genuine desire to make the game and the community better for all.  But its always going to be your call, its your game.  But again, its in our nature to continue to offer up ideas, comments, suggestions, criticisms, modifications, tweaks, etc. and odds are, we'll continue to do it even if told not to.... again, its just who we are.  We do it with TV shows, movies, books, politics, etc.  We're all smart people, who are used to having our ideas implemented by others in other facets of our professional lives, and we know we have some good ideas.  And we're sorry if we annoy you, bother you, irritate you, etc. with our constant recommendations on how things could be done differently/better/more efficiently etc. but most of our friends, spouses, co-workers, children, etc. have learned to at least tolerate us for it

So we'll keep throwing things out and hoping some of them stick and eventually get added to the game in some context, but even if they don't, most all of us feel the game is already GREAT! or we wouldn't bother responding and playing.  That's my take on things anyway.

Cheers!

[unclemike]

It'll be a while before I can make any changes to the Duel game due to my schedule so the current version is what will be played for the upcoming games. That's not a disgruntled employee's statement, just FYI to everyone that the current version will be used moving forward for a while at least.

Regarding the suggestions, most of them are ones that I had already considered while designing the game except for Atuan's idea of bypassing turn 4 requirements. That's something new but I had considered more changes than what has been posted on the forum so far. Heck, I even tried to throw in some of the ideas that I proposed for 2nd Cycle as in random cities, random kingdom placement, larger starting armies, random seasons (so the game doesn't always start off with the same season), ...etc.

I thought I might try some of that again, at least the random kingdom placement concept, and see if it would gain any traction this time around. But it didn't work out and I think only one player liked the idea of having random kingdom placement while the majority wanted static as a normal 2nd/3rd Cycle game. So I lost another round for random kingdom placement but had to move on to get everything done in a reasonable time.

The seasonal situation was another that I had considered since one side would be favored compared to the other but the Solo/Duel game needed to reflect the regular game or new players would get lost when they advanced so I left the season situation alone. Same for a lot of my other ideas that I wanted to do for the Duel game that didn't make the cut so don't think that there was a general inflexibility for changes because that certainly was not the case.

Though I was worried about having two cities in a region if it would make controlling the regions too easy and end up finishing the game too quickly. But surprisingly, that hasn't been the case so far (turn 9 is coming up with only the dragon game completed). I was also worried that every kingdom had two towns/villages and wanted to reduce that to a single town/village in their home region (with larger initial food/gold treasuries) but thought that would slow the game too much and people would complain so scrubbed that idea as well.

So there were all kinds of modifications that I was considering just by myself (not including any from Ry Vor) in trying to make the Duel game as awesome as possible. In the end, since the original purpose of the Solo/Duel game was to bring new players up to speed, I limited new stuff to reflect the regular 3rd Cycle game as closely as possible and moved on.

[unclemike]

An evaluation of the Duel game so far:

Game 1004, Sacred Order vs. Demon Princes, "Horse Lords vs. Demon Scum"

Even though I had to find a standby to fill in for me, the first few turns of this game were great in that I was able to combine my forces and reach a city on the first turn. Attacking the city the following turn took it's damage on my troops but it was really fun to conquer a city on turn 2. Netstrider took over for me so can't comment on the rest of the game but I'm hoping that the evil demon scum will fall to the mighty horselords of the Sacred Order!


Game 1009, Halfling vs. Lizard Men, "Wet Lizards vs. Hobbits"

Turn 9 is coming up on Friday and to tell you the truth, I don't think either of us are in a position to finish the game before turn 18 so it's like a Most Artifacts type of game. That's ok though. It'll give me a chance to try out new things that I haven't done in a game before like the Project Image or Instant Phantoms spell. Last turn, I developed two pwr-5 wizards so I can do some of the more exciting stuff that's available to wizards during the 2nd half of the game.


Duel game in general:

Overall, I think the Duel format is great, provides a nice alternative to the normal fare, and allows some kingdoms a greater chance for victory than otherwise. For example, some players may be intimidated to try out the Sacred Order in a normal game since there's 3 or 4 other kingdoms in Amberland and you'll anger one or more of them if you attack their pc's. Well, the Duel game makes playing the Sacred Order that much more fun since you only have to deal with a single opponent (and no ganging up on you later on). This is also true for the Cimmerians who may be pounced on if surrounded by wizard kingdoms in the regular game but in the Duel format, could end up being a lot of fun with a more relaxed and enjoyable style of play.

[Rogal]

Question I have about transfers and casters.  (Please feel free to just send me to a link if this is covered already).  How do you transfer a caster from one group to another and cast  a spell that is higher order number then the transfer order?  This is my first game with the new system (3rd)  so I am probably overlooking something.  For example, I did a character transfer from 3rd group to my 1st group, but when I tried to cast 888 raven familiar, I could not get the interface to see my casting casters new group.  
On a side note, how do you hire a High Priestess, I think I got it this turn, but I am not 100% sure I hired one or not this turn.  Who knows who I am randomly hiring it seems.