301 - Forum Diplomacy Only Steel SVC

[VballMichael]

OOC: I'm with you.

The Giant position still has four PC's, all starting brigades, wizards, leaders, and about 90,000 gold.

I think if the players would agree not to attack GI PC's until at least turn 6, it can be a viable standby.  And of course, standbys are free and do not consume a slot.

HH might contact the players who have expressed interest in a standby.

As Elf, I can agree to that. He was a newbie anyway, so no immediate plans should have revolved around attacking his position. Not sure how much you want to do, but I would be supportive of a couple of generic increases (maybe an Adept to a 1, maybe raise 2 agents a level or two, just to keep him somewhat moving along).

[Mad Hatter]

OOC: I'm with you.

The Giant position still has four PC's, all starting brigades, wizards, leaders, and about 90,000 gold.

I think if the players would agree not to attack GI PC's until at least turn 6, it can be a viable standby.  And of course, standbys are free and do not consume a slot.

HH might contact the players who have expressed interest in a standby.

As Elf, I can agree to that. He was a newbie anyway, so no immediate plans should have revolved around attacking his position. Not sure how much you want to do, but I would be supportive of a couple of generic increases (maybe an Adept to a 1, maybe raise 2 agents a level or two, just to keep him somewhat moving along).

As the WA, I'm perfectly fine with that. Let's get someone to take the position if possible.

[DuPont]

OOC - Imperial Tark, I want to break character for a moment and make clear that I'm just totally role-playing here. Playing a dragon, who in most fiction tend to be the most arrogant and touchy beasts, it seemed to me that the response for your opening demand of a portion of the Steppes (which really was out of the norm) would be a furious answer to the presumption of demanding part of what a dragon had already claimed as his own. I'm going to go back into character, but I just want to make sure that none of it is intended personally. A dragon would of course crow over his victories (and probably ignore his losses) and since we are playing that kind of game, it just seems to add colour to keep at it.

[Ry Vor]

OOC: I'm with you.

The Giant position still has four PC's, all starting brigades, wizards, leaders, and about 90,000 gold.

I think if the players would agree not to attack GI PC's until at least turn 6, it can be a viable standby.  And of course, standbys are free and do not consume a slot.

HH might contact the players who have expressed interest in a standby.

As Elf, I can agree to that. He was a newbie anyway, so no immediate plans should have revolved around attacking his position. Not sure how much you want to do, but I would be supportive of a couple of generic increases (maybe an Adept to a 1, maybe raise 2 agents a level or two, just to keep him somewhat moving along).

Mike is tied up so I don't think there will be adjustments to the position.  It's "as is", but again, has not been damaged as of yet.

[VballMichael]

OOC:  I take everything DuPont says personally

[HeadHoncho]

OOC - Imperial Tark, I want to break character for a moment and make clear that I'm just totally role-playing here. Playing a dragon, who in most fiction tend to be the most arrogant and touchy beasts, it seemed to me that the response for your opening demand of a portion of the Steppes (which really was out of the norm) would be a furious answer to the presumption of demanding part of what a dragon had already claimed as his own. I'm going to go back into character, but I just want to make sure that none of it is intended personally. A dragon would of course crow over his victories (and probably ignore his losses) and since we are playing that kind of game, it just seems to add colour to keep at it.

OOC: Ditto this, although I hope and think IT knows that already, since I'm still happily advising him on general Alamaze matters in some of his other games.

As for the Giant, I'm not talking about adjusting the position... I'm referring to the fact that the Giant position has been completely eliminated as of the end of T3.  All of his pop centers have already been turned human, and all of his assets have been deleted.  So are you sure it's as simple as flipping a switch, so to speak, to put all of that back?

[Mad Hatter]

OCC: I hope this can be sorted out as I found his PC's in R5 these past 2 turns and want to make a decision on orders before Saturday.

[IMPERIAL_TARK]

OOC - Imperial Tark, I want to break character for a moment and make clear that I'm just totally role-playing here. Playing a dragon, who in most fiction tend to be the most arrogant and touchy beasts, it seemed to me that the response for your opening demand of a portion of the Steppes (which really was out of the norm) would be a furious answer to the presumption of demanding part of what a dragon had already claimed as his own. I'm going to go back into character, but I just want to make sure that none of it is intended personally. A dragon would of course crow over his victories (and probably ignore his losses) and since we are playing that kind of game, it just seems to add colour to keep at it.

OOC - DuPont, I appreciate the clarification but it's totally unnecessary; I'm a long-time gamer and understand the IC and OOC distinctions quite well and can separate the two. I think you have role-played the part of the RD wonderfully! I went into this wanting to deliberately role-play an aggressive, confident queen who was in no way intimidated by the Dragons given her family's long military background (I'm glad I'm "out of the norm"), she would much rather "burn out, then fade away"; so she backs down to no one (not prudent from an IC perspective, but much fun to play; but then I wasn't worried so much about "winning" as having a lot of role-playing fun).
So crow away, I would do it as well if our roles were reversed. However, because she said she would not speak with you until you apologized for your insults, it will unfortunately make the role-play a bit lopsided for awhile, which really is a double-whammy because she would have attempted to "demand" her emissaries back creating more role-play fun, but she's as principled a character as they come and she made her decree. But make no mistake, she will be plotting her revenge in silence (well save for her back-handed commentary via her discussions with the BL King).

[HeadHoncho]

DWARVEN COUNCIL HALL

The small council had been torn with disagreement, some of it quite bitter, ever since the first month of the conflict. The traditionalist faction had been up in arms, rallying against the proposal of the Reds, while the amity faction -- derisively called the appeasement faction by the traditionalists -- had called for open minds and an innovative response.

At the end of the day, King Darin III bade his chief diplomat, Grundun Glittergold, to make a deal... but the grumbling had not stopped there. Fed by the self-interested second-guessing of foreign powers, the traditionalists continued to fume, pointing to the Reds going silent and then even capturing a Dwarven noble during the fall of Jukanta, a noble who was specifically representing the common interests of the Reds and the Dwarves in denying the city to the frigid Ranger Queen.

Deep in his cups, Old Thornbeard, the head of the traditionalists, finally blurted out, "Thish deal is madness, we should sheize upon the Reds' failure to share their overflight rec... recon... information, and renounce it! Hammerhold for the Dwarves, and damn the cowards to hell!"

Gasps emerged from the amity faction, before a silence fell over the room. Dwarves were known for robust debate, and the free people had no real history of lese majeste to punish those who spoke against the crown, but even so, Old Thornbeard's comments stepped over the line of propriety and into the realm of offensive insult.

Grundun glared at the speaker but bit back his initial response. Just because the man had spoken out of turn, didn't mean that Grundun would follow suit. After all, Old Thornbeard was a fellow Dwarf, not some upjumped human or even worse, a Gnome. Moreover, he was Grundun's elder by decades, with a history of loyal support for the crown.

Even so, the outrage demanded a response. He cleared his throat. "Hrm... your Majesty, at this time, I believe a refresher course in geopolitics might be in order?"

Darin III was a young King, but he had been raised to rule, and his studies of past eras and cycles and current events were both broad and deep. Never one to take offense lightly, the King smiled at Grundun, and even Old Thornbeard. "By all means, good Grundun. Although we appreciate the concerns of the traditionalists, and the long and storied service of their leader, it is more and more clear that the course we adopted was the correct one. Please allow me to explain."

Without waiting for anyone's assent, the King stood, and began walking clockwise around the circular table. "With the plague exterminating the Dark Elves, a unique opportunity presented itself to us. The Reds and the People have seldom been friendly with each other, much more often we have skirmished over common territorial claims. By the Dark Elves' convenient, shall we say, vacating of the Eastern Steppes, it left a power vacuum that could be filled. It could have been filled by the Reds, the Giants, the Warlock, or us. Time was of the essence, however, and I was determined that either the Reds or we would fill that vacuum. So I spoke to Grundun and we made the first proposal."

He gestured with his right hand, flourishing it upward and outward. "Now, would I have preferred the Reds to agree to leave our Mountains entirely? Of course! But consider the alternatives. They could have asked US to move to the Eastern Steppes, and before you scoff at that, we had considered that very contingency. But of course, our preference would be to remain right here."

The King then clenched his right hand. "Or we could have fought. And that would have been an utter disaster. Although our armies could have held their own and more in the mountains, and we could have maintained a number of our mountain strongholds, every other town and village in the region would fall to the Reds, and we would have been left with a bare majority or more likely, a rump portion, of our own mountains. Meanwhile, the Giants, Warlock, and even the execrable Ranger Queen and the Demon Princes would have snapped up the Eastern Steppes. All while the Reds and the People fought and weakened each other, all for a portion of this region. And although the Talking Mountains might be slightly more prosperous than, say, the Steppes, it isn't so much so that it could support two Kingdoms fighting over it."

"Think about it," the King declared. "We are now on the cusp of controlling the region, and the Reds have essentially departed for better opportunities. Most of all, the Ranger Queen is reaping the bitter fruit of opposing the Reds early in the struggle. Remember, if the Reds put their minds to it, they can conquer just about ANY region despite opposition. It may bloody them, and certain Kingdoms could make their lives quite challenging, but there's a reason their military strikes fear into the hearts of most. Consider Jukanta! The Rangers' crown jewel has now fallen, and two of her three highest nobles are dead. We would not have that for the People. There is no profit in it, for either of us."

At this point, even a few traditionalists were nodding, and it wasn't clear if Old Thornbeard's redness came from strong drink, embarrassment, or shame.

"So. We will NOT declare a breach of the agreement and renounce it. The Reds are fearsome and blunt, but they are reasonable and logical people. We have shown a willingness to work with them, to invest resources in fighting our common enemy, and to be flexible in negotiations. I genuinely believe they will return our noble to us unharmed, and that they will find a way to make up for the lack of overflight reconnaissance." He shot a quick smile at Old Thornbeard, who begrudgingly returned a smirk.

The King concluded, "And perhaps they will even consider the service we did for them in preventing Jukanta from going to the Rangers and even causing their nobles to be imprisoned, thus guaranteeing their capture and execution rather than giving them an opportunity to flee. Perhaps they will agree to transfer Hammerhold later, or offer their village in the Talking Mountains to us, or with the uncertain state of the Giants, provide to us the extra town and village in the Eastern Steppes that had been previously on offer to them. Or some combination thereof. Regardless, as the Reds prosper and expand, I trust they will be fair with us, as well." The King completed his third circuit of the table, and then sat again.

Grundun scanned the room. The traditionalists would still hold their own positions, of course, but he suspected the grumbling -- the overt grumbling, anyway -- would cease. The Chief Diplomat bowed deeply to his King, and said, "I will proceed on that basis, your Majesty."

[HeadHoncho]

As for the Giant, I'm not talking about adjusting the position... I'm referring to the fact that the Giant position has been completely eliminated as of the end of T3.  All of his pop centers have already been turned human, and all of his assets have been deleted.  So are you sure it's as simple as flipping a switch, so to speak, to put all of that back?

OOC: Rick, if you are indeed able to reset this GI position, the person to slot in as a standby is Thudargh, as the other people in front of him on the standby list are already in this game.  Just let us know so we can start negotiating with him.  Thanks!

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm all in favor of a standby for GI, but considering the turn I just had, only if inserting him would NOT require a rerunning of the turn. I would have a huge, major, extreme problem with a rerun. Hopefully it won't be an issue, just letting my viewpoint be known in advance.